PowerBasic Forum down (20.07.2013)

[Laurence Jackson]

I would probably go on using PB/Win 10 for some time without further updates. If the resource of the forum disappeared I would discontinue its use far more quickly. I don't think I'm alone in thinking like this and so those in charge now would be wise to consider this before they take the site down without warning or explanation.

[John Spikowski]

It could be that they had a smooth transition planned and it went wrong.  That can happen.  I'm sure everyone here has had a plan fail.

PowerBASIC earned the benefit of the doubt when the first time the site was down for days. (excuse: moving, Bob passing, new management, ...) With little or no activity from the home team (explanation why they are acting like air heads, keeping everyone in the dark about PB's future and who is running the show) they pull the same FU (move, take the site down again and Jim confesses being confused) and expect everyone to tap their loyalty bag and turn the other cheek. Sorry, they are in business and take people's money. There is a commitment a company should make to their customers that they stand behind their products and provide the stability and support free software isn't obligated to provide. PowerBASIC has failed on all fronts and is pushing the envelope by asking their customers to understand.

[Anand Kumar]

John,

PowerBasic is known for its compilers...  What matters is whether my compiled programs work and whether I am able to create a program using the available compilers.  I pay for the compilers. I can at best complaint about the quality of the compiled code and nothing else.

The forums and the web-site is free and I dont pay for it.  I dont need them to make my compilers work.  True, there exists helpful folks to sort out some technical issues but that is the point of a good community.  So please do not go on as though PB committed some taboo or sacrilege and PB customers should ditch it etc. 

We are not running PB Operations nor do we understand their operational model; so we cant simply throw some words in the air about how they should behave.  True, things can be better but I have seen products which does not work from Day one and simply not workable.  We just get on with what is possible at that time.

I have modified and used ScriptBasic for the last decade or so.  But that does not mean it can replace PowerBasic.  For me SB is a tool and so is PB and in my eyes PB is far better for the kind of products that I create. 

PowerBasic is the best programming environment that I have used in the last 24 years or so.  I will stick to it and I believe that the folks at PB are better equipped to deal with their operational issues than me.  I would rather let them in peace to sort their issues instead of passing leud comments on how to run their business.  My interest is the tools that they provide and its quality and nothing else. 

[Bernhard Fomm]

The main problem is that on the product page the forum page is embedded.

The compiler we have. Yes.
But the community are deprived of important tools.
The intergrated forum and the online resources are important purchase decision.

[Börje Hagsten]

Hi fellows! Considering the low input rate from only a few of us in the PB forums lately, it's surprising how many negative reactions a couple of days downtime causes. As I have understood it, a .05 update is lurking around the corner, so just sit down in the boat and don't worry - Bob has built a stabile ground for PB to stand on and I'm sure it will be around for many years to come.

[George Bleck]

I have been lurking waiting out the forums return but I find it time to post.

[rant]
I am, in some ways, shocked by some of the comments I've read thus far.  Some of the people here are SO negative it's scary.  I interpret it as anti-PowerBASIC-ism although not sure if that's the intention.   For those with the negativity... DON"T USE THE PRODUCT.  There are many of us, professional level programmers, that know what we are doing that like and want the product for what it does.

Sure the staff could have informed us of the outage, but to cut them some slack, I have never, EVER, received a notification from a vendor that they shut down shop and moved and I do IT professionally for a living.  Not one, and I deal with hundreds of vendors.  The only reason this is even an issue for some is they have an extremely active Forum and tight-knit community so the silence is deadening.  It goes to prove the user based strength when interruptions happen.

I've always been told if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything.  Personal opinions aside, if you don't like a product don't post spammy messages about it... perform a PROFESSIONAL level review.  A legit review will be better received than spewing hate messages.  Posters like that just look like a weed in a garden.
[/rant]

[Chris Holbrook]

I interpret it as anti-PowerBASIC-ism although not sure if that's the intention. 

PowerBASIC is a supplier, George, not a religion. People are entitled to their opinions and the level of service which they believe is appropriate. Of course people with a grudge will jump in with both feet, that is to be expected, sadly. The most telling feature of the current episode is that a number of people were quite prepared to believe that the company had hit a wall.  Unfortunately, nothing that has happened in the last few days has negated that view, and despite Jim Bailey's update, only the re-emergence, unscathed,  of PowerBASIC's online presence, followed by a timely update as mentioned by Borje will blow those fears and doubts away for the sceptics among us.

I'm not knocking the products, but I would certainly like the company to stop self-harming, apart from other considerations my ego prefers to be associated with success!

[George Bleck]

But you bought a product and you have a product, transaction complete and supplier has fulfilled their duty.  The freebies that PowerBASIC offers (forum, many of the simple tech support Q's)  are just that... FREEBIES.

Has anyone contacted PowerBASIC for a paid support call since the down time?  THAT is what matters.  From Jim's port it seems sales and support contacts are still working.  THAT'S what we pay for.

It's not religion, I just don't see as you see where PowerBASIC is not supporting their requirements.

[Frederick J. Harris]

I've been getting more work done since the forum has been down.  Wrote an install program for some of my PowerBASIC work related apps.  Used PB6.

[Gary Beene]

Hey, John(S),

I'm sorry, but I don't know your background, other than what I've read in this thread.

But given your comment:

I got off the PB bus long ago ...

I'm mystified why you're participating in a thread about PB, a product you've haven't used in a "long" time, particularly when your comments are all negative. It seems like you're still on the bus in some way or another.  When I soured on MS for dropping VB6, I don't recall going online at MS forums and bad-mouthing them - I actually took another bus.

It feels like there's been an event in the past that's soured you on PB?  Have I missed a history that everyone else here seems to know about?

... went looking to try and answer the question myself. John, I found this post of yours from 2008:

I think PowerBASIC is at the end of it's useful life cycle and only the loyal and too lazy to change will continue to use it.

I can't find the original conflict (I'm assuming there was one?), but it's certainly a long-standing grudge!

Count me in as loyal and lazy! 

[Richard Angell]

Börge's points are spot on, ditto for George and Chris.  Many folks here probably realize that some of the prime contributors here have been directly involved in beta with PowerBASIC for many, many years.  While they could not tell you any future direction because NDAs prevent that, experience over many product version developments has always led to additions which made the PB user tent larger. Never were all the resources dedicated to any one area, but advances and improvements were made in many areas that various segments of the user community needed   Also updates as well as new version and new product  betas usually overlapped, so to assume that such is not so any more could be, well, terribly naive.

Some have pointed out that it will take time to get a handle on Bob's source code, in so many words, and then go forward.  If you have ever written an enterprise size system or an extensive user tool set, you know this is not even a simple task.  Also  the no vaporware policy has not been discarded in favor of promises of this and that, even though Jim Bailey and others have indicated plans regarding 64 bit compilers exist without trying to go further.  So for 64bit development, like where development is, what it will be, etc., those misconceptions can not be birthed from any official source. 

That said, moving forward. growing a larger staff compliment, getting good team synergy, takes time and a lot of adjustment --- which is really what we've seen.  The main problem here, is there was not advanced  PR that kept the user community informed, because those that participate are a tight knit group in many ways,  and providing an alternate mirror site, at least until the moved IT and telephone setups were ready.  Even so, right now I'd say being pro-PB helps much more in the long run,  while maybe needing in some cases to use another tool in the interim,  is significantly, better to promote advances  than airing personal grievances for some past situation.   Such personal rehashes are not constructive in the community at large.  If there is a serious concern, e-mail Jim Bailey and remain patient.  He does respond.   But don't hold your breath if a suggested new direction is not taken, even if the logic of such appears to be without fault.  The brand, according to forum posts, is carrying out Bob's previously planned directions.   Bob did listen, did consider and in many cases decided to do something that way or in a way that aided more of us than we individually may have originally considered.  I like many here hope we many come to see some of that carried forward when the reorganizing days bear fruit.

[Mike Doty]

Just talked to Jim Bailey on the phone and they are having ISP and phone problems and hope to be up tonight.  The company is expanding!

[Mark Smit]

Like some of the others here I'm a little taken back by the negative comments. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you are most certainly free to leave so why spend your time bitching about it. I just don't get why some of you are hanging on for the sake of complaining...

To be honest it's puzzling and humorous at how much of your time you spend doing this... It's almost like you expect something to come from all your complaining... ?!

LOL

[Patrice Terrier]

Ok, because they are very few that could take over Bob's work.

The good question to ask is:

What is the name of the guy in charge of writing the code now? 

From that name we could figure if there is a future or not.

...

[John Spikowski]

What is the name of the guy in charge of writing the code now?

I would say Fred. He is the author of PB and has reported an increase in sales over the last 6 months.